Jersey Traders De Quetteville Freres, Guizot and Le Seour

Fishermen from the Channel Islands, especially Jersey, came to this village to fish every summer. It was historically a major fishing port. Around 1780, De Quetteville , a fishing company, made Blanc-Sablon their headquarters in the region for nearly a century. Their activities concentrated around cod fishing, and they went back home to Jersey each fall. In 1817, people came lo live permanently from Québec city, New Brunswick’s Acadie and Jersey Island

The fishing establishments were called “rooms,” and it is quite usual in this country to speak of them as “Jersey rooms,” no matter whether the proprietors belonged to Jersey or Guernsey. Harbour Grace is no doubt an Anglicization of Havre de Grace and was not named by the French, as they never resorted to Conception Bay either for fishing or for settlement, but it is a well-known fact that at a very early period two Jersey firms had fishing establishments there. The ground on which the Post Office stands and the land adjacent belonged to the Gushue family from time immemorial and was known as the “Jersey room.” Gushue is a corruption of Guizot, the name of a well-known Jersey family. As a proof that the Gushues were originally Guizots they can show a piece of plate with the name Guizot on it, which has been handed down for generations. Near the waterside of this property was a large rock in which an iron ringbolt was fastened, used in mooring ships, and on it were cut names and letters in old Jersey style. The De Quettevilles had an establishment on the south side of Harbour Grace, also known as the “Jersey room,” very early in the sixteenth century. The house on this property was called the Stone House and was built of freestone quarried at an island in the bay. Only the foundations now remain.

Peter Le Seour, who was a convert to Methodism by Coughlan and who afterwards introduced Methodism into Jersey in 1770, carried on a business at Harbour Grace.

1750 “De Quetteville was trading from Harbour Grace between 1750 and 1790, being linked as time went on with Nicholas Fiott.” But the majority went out to Newfoundland at this period on a seasonal basis, and the merchants were engaged in the ‘sack’ trade, and carrving fish on the triangular route to New England, the West Indies and the Mediterranean together with miscellaneous goods collected for the outward journey or from ports of call as they returned to Jersey in the autumn.

quetteville1

These merchants, often younger sons of prominent families and intricately connected by marriage, pursued a pattern of trade already established by the French in the 16th. century.’ The prizes were high, but the risks were great and usually shared among a number of owners who were the bourgeois or outfitters, the armateurs or suppliers of equipment, the victualleurs and sometimes the maitre. A master might be his own armateur. Usually there were no wages, but agreed regulations about the sharing of profits, one third went to the owner, one third to the merchant and one third was to be divided among the crew. On arrival in Newfoundlandthe men set up temporary stations with wooden staging on which to split and dry the cod, the first captain to ….“Balleine’s History Of Jersey, page 170, DA670 J-5 B32, NEHGS

Noel & Newfoundland DNA Projects

 

New YDNA Results 67 Markers (2017)

With the help of a distant relative of John Philip Newell in the Bareneed Newell clan we were able to get a definitive match. The Newells of Bareneed and the Noels of Carbonear/Harbour Grace are from the same family tree. The new kit matches 61 of 67 for a genetic distance of 6.

New Y-DNA TiP Report

COMPARISON CHART assuming no common ancestor for 5 generations
Generations Percentage
8 72.91%
12 94.52%
16 99.05%
20 99.85%
24 99.98%

Haplogroup

Family Finder DNA test

The Family Finder DNA test was highly successful at tie-ing in the Carbonear and Harbour Grace Noels. There are now about 30 Noel kits on GEDmatch. The matches are there, but with multiple shared family lines shared, it is often difficult to pin down the source of the matching. Still I am encouraged by what I am seeing and there may be a critical mass of data now. More data also generates more questions however.

Newfoundland Family Finder Project

This project is for people who have ancestry from Newfoundland and Labrador and who have taken (or plan to take) Family Tree DNA’s Family Finder test. Some Noel data has already been collected. From time to time there are special prices on the testing. This study is probably more significant if my test represents the Newfoundland Noels adequately in Dominic’s study below.

With increasing participation and the known link between Carbonear and Harbour Grace it was easy to spot apparent family connections.

Just a note here:

If you are interested in the medical aspects of your DNA, FTDNA is not the best road. 23andMe DNA specializes in this. That said you are not completely out of the game with FTDNA. For $15 Promothease will analyze your DNA results from FTDNA and provide the Medical indications they can deduce from them in a report. If you are mildly interested or curious I think it is worthwhile. The information is broad and somewhat vague but interesting nevertheless.

More info here:

http://dna-explained.com/2013/12/30/promethease-genetic-health-information-alternative/

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Promethease

Getting A DNA test

Family Tree DNA periodically has discounts. If you think it may be of interest to you let me know and I will notify you when a promotion is happening (or get on their email list yourself)

Competition in the industry has brought the Family Finder test down to a reasonable $99. I do not think I have seen it cheaper. Promotions 89$.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/NfldLab-FF/

http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx

an example of the promotions available

DNA Test Promotion Example

The Noel Surname DNA Project

An 12 marker YDNA test is now very reasonable at $59 before reductions.

http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx

Dominic Noel is hoping to enlist Noel’s of all lines into a DNA project to determine their relationship to each other. The candidates must be males because they carry the XY chromosome pair and it is based on the Y chromosome which is passed from father to son. The ladies who have the XX pair would have to furnish a cheek swab from a brother, Uncle or cousin.

http://noel.mcn.org/NoelDNAProject.htm

Clement from Harbour Grace   ca 1804

ydna chart

 

DNA Family Finder Analysis

A good further look at Family Finder numbers:

http://cryokidconfessions.blogspot.com/2011/09/dna-numbers-game.html

And from Tim Janzen on the Genealogy-DNA listserv (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2011-04/1302395962):

Ranges of the length of shared IBD segments based on family relationship:

  • Parent/child: 2851st cousins: 50-141
  • 1st cousins once removed: 36-106 cMs
  • 2nd cousins: 21-64 cMs
  • 2nd cousins once removed: 19-81
  • 3rd cousins: 13-77
  • 3rd cousins once removed: 0-27
  • 4th cousins: 0-22
  • 4th cousins once removed: 0-13
  • 5th cousins: 0-27

Identical by Decent versus Identical by State

11 cM or greater matching segment: >99% IBD, <1% IBS
10 cM matching segment: 99% IBD, 1% IBS
9 cM matching segment: 80% IBD, 20% IBS
8 cM matching segment: 50% IBD, 50% IBS
7 cM matching segment: 30% IBD, 70% IBS
6 cM matching segment: 20% IBD, 80% IBS
5 cM matching segment: 5% IBD, 95% IBS
4 cM matching segment: ca 1% IBD, ca 99% IBS

IBD = Identical By Descent
IBS = Identical By State = by chance

How do these numbers change if I have 10 small segments of various Noel, Neil, Knowles, and Newells lining up. It no longer looks so random. If they all map under a matching large segment of Noel DNA even less random.

“Sticky DNA”

Multiple matches on the same segment can indeed be from a common ancestor, depending on their location and length.  In general, segments smaller than 7 CM (some would argue for 10) have a high probability of being coincidental.  So if your “cousins” match you on a segment at least that large, they are worth exploring. Also, there are some regions that may contain small “sticky” segments that are common to many people with the same deep ancestry.

Deeper Autosomal connections

To my surprise some of my matches to various Knowles, Newhalls, Noels and Neils are not seeming so random. I have a match in Family Finder that ties back to Cornelius Noel of Holland ca 1623 in the YDNA study above. I think I have a number of other matches  to deep relatives – Knowles in Lancashire 1800, Newhall Boston 1674, Noel North Carolina 1780 and Newell Herefordshire 1620 . I was highly sceptical of a connection but the more data I throw in the more it seems there is something going on. I am trying to use these deep connections to identify later family segment DNA contributors to chromosome locations. I think I am making some progress. I just realized though, there may be a double connection that will require a second look. The good news it is possibly pointing to a new surname.

A deeper connection success story to 1604 where documentation was available:

http://blog.kittycooper.com/2014/01/a-deep-dna-triangulation-success-story/

Suggested by David Pike:

The lectures that are available here might be helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7HQSiSkiy7ujlkgQER1FYw?feature=watch

So too might be the webinars here:
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/ftdna/webinars/

GEDmatch

This is a useful site. If you participate you will be able to see details of near misses on your original database. Unlike FTDNA you can view details of these folks once you identify their kit number.You also will see some additional matches of some people who participated with other companies.

 

DNAGedcom: NEW Family Finder Segment analyzer tool

I tried a number of times on my older laptop. Finally tried on my 4-year-old’s new machine and it popped up first try. The data is nicely organized and the process was not overly cumbersome.

This tool is vastly more powerful than I first realized.

Basically it combines three files and gives you a nice graphical output. The files are downloaded from Family Finder DNA. That part is great in itself. What I then found is that the files can be modified as you want. You must, however,  strictly follow the formatting of the original files.

I added a folder name on DNAGedcom with the same name as the original downloaded folder but added an “N” at the end. I then extracted all the data that was of interest to me as Noel potential relatives (very open filter here as you want the outliers in the file). Make a column of the names you want to appear by copying the names from the Matches file. Resave all 3 modified files with the N added. They can then be uploaded for a separate run on DNAGedcom.

This was how to extract the data from the 3 separate files:

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-general/764499-excel-2008-extracting-certain-rows-from-one-sheet-to-another-based-on-specific-list.html

I then had a chart of all these folks without the distracting data. After I had something I liked, I reran it with a specified criteria that allowed the smaller segments matches to be included. I ended up with some thing I can work with. I was less successful in my other family names where there was not enough data. I also tried a chart of Carbonear, Nfld names and a batch of 4 names that seemed to be linked. I include all the Smiths globally, not just the ones I am focussing in on. The next thing I found is that data from Gedmatch could be adapted. I could include data from Sue Reid who does not match me on Family Finder. Sue did not match a lot of DNA with me so I opened up the filter when I pulled her data to see more possible locations where she might connect with Noels.

I then found on GedMatch there are about 50 people I can include over and above the data I received from Family Finder. I am going to work to include this now. I possibly have a line on the Moore surname which I had not included in my ancestry.

Here is the DNAGedcom where the tool is located.

http://www.dnagedcom.com/adsa/index.php

Some commentary on it

http://dna-explained.com/2014/01/09/introducing-the-autosomal-dna-segment-analyzer/

http://www.genealogyjunkie.net/1/post/2014/01/autosomal-dna-segment-analyzer-adsa-no-spreadsheets-required-part-1.html

For my quick look at my longest segment the Matrix tool on Family Finder eliminated 2 matches from the above analysis.

A good discussion on segments here:

http://ongenetics.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/genetic-genealogy-and-single-segment.html

Newell Surname Project

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/newell/results

National Geographic Test $199

does not give adequate info for the YDNA project and not really suitable for genealogy

It is more directed to your much deeper ancestry.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/14/what-to-order-geno-2-0-vs-family-tree-dna-products/

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk

Muster Rolls

From Al Beagan’s

July 25 to 31, 1802″Muster of the regiment under Colonel Thomas Skinner showing Michael Knight in Major Chris Aldridge’s Company and Phillip Knight in Captain Phillip V. Cortland’s Company in the last muster before disbanding in HalifaxJuly 1802. Both Michael and Phillip were shown in Newfoundland.”

Others listed on the muster of Major Chris Aldridge’s Company; Lieut Thomas Dwyer, Ensign Michl Dwyer, Serjeants; Richard McGrath, William Mayo, Daniel Melvin, Corporals; John Jones, Joseph Noel, William Williams. Drummers; Thomas Kelly, Thomas Ryan. Private Men; #1 James Antle, #2 John Brown, #3 Samuel Brown, #4 Roger Bryan, #5 Robert Crant, #6 Robert Courage, #7 James Crofs?, #8 William Dagwell, #9 James Doughney, #10 Wiliam De?, #11 Thomas Evany, #12 Robert F?, #13 John Fury?, #14 John Gaines, #15 John Galphin, #16 George Goff, #17 John ?ant, #18 Richard Herron, #19 Robert Hide, #20 Edward Hitchcock?, #21 Elias Hundle, #22 Nicholas Jurey, #24 Henry Lovell, #25 Michael McDonald, #26 James McManus, #27 George Melmouth, #28 William Pack, #29 John Pardy, #30 Samuel Pinkant, #31 Joseph ? Roberts, #32 Joseph Russell?, #33 Robert Snook, #34 Edward Stanbury? #35 Thos Strickland, #36 Charles Stroke, #37 John Tennant, #38 Geo. Jesse Thrang?, #39 Philip Tippet?, #40 Joseph Waldbridge, #41 James Walkan?, #42 Joseph Walsh, #43 William Walsh, #44 William Webb, William Welch?” 1804?

The new regiment raised by Colonel John Skerrett in July 1803; Michael copied the musters showing John Knight’s earliest entry in 5th Vacant company 28th September 1803 and later in Captain Richard Rochfort’s Company.

From 25 Aug to 24 Sept.; Captain Richard Rochford , drawn on the agent, Lieut. William Blunt? 4/12/9½died 11 Sept., Ensign John Morris 6/18/2½ Recruiting. Serjeants; John Gribby? 25 Aug to 30 Aug 0/6/4½, Garrett Murphy 1/12/11¼, Joseph Monasette 1/12/11¼, James? Shere? 1/12/11¼. Corporals; Andrew Bray 1/1/3¾Recruiting, Joseph Leroux 1/1/3¾, Peter Fitzpatrick 1/1/3¾Recruiting, Patrick Day? 1/1/3¾Transferred from Gothing’s ? Company and promoted?. Drummers; Emanuel Williams 1/0/¼, William ?ogood 1/0/¼, Private Men all at 0/15/0; #1Wiliam Brien or Brun, #2 Richard Barnes, #3 Thomas Burke, #4 William Brannan, #5 James Brooks, #6 Michael Bower? Transferred from Capt. Whelan’s company, #7 James Crute, #8 John Clives, #9 Edward Connor, #10 Ambrose Cook, #11 Bartholomew Collins, #12 James Crofs? Recruiting, #13 John Christopher Detzor?, #14 John Dinney, #15 Michael Dhraon, #16Jacob Green, #17 John Gribby reduced from serg 31 Aug, #18, Thomas Hiscock, #19 John Hutchings, #20 George Janes on furlough, #21 John Knight, #22 Martin Leary, #23 William Light, #24 Denis Leary, #25 Thomas Lake, #26 David Marsh on command, #27 George Malone, #28 John Mullings, #29 Edward Mahony, #30 Charles Myles, #31 Frederick McDonald, #32 Robert Mansfield, #33 Philip Penny, #34 John Petterson, #35 William park 2nd, #36 Thomas Pottle on furlough, #37 Bernard Scheiger, #38 Denis Sheeron, #39 Isaac Smith, #40 Bartholomeu Seymour, #41 John Thompson, #42 John Tobin” End of left page of ledger

partial right side of ledger “Captain Philip V. Cortland, Lieut. George ?, Ensign Elias M?, Serjeants; James Currie, John Hagan?, John Walsh, Richard Roberts. Corporals; Henry Overhause, John McCarthy, Joseph Noel, William Hall, William Landrigan. Drummers; William Haley?, Thomas Connolly. Private Men; #1 ? Andrews, #2 John Beckey, #3 William Berry, #4 mathew Breen, #5 Samuel Brown, #6 William Cheater, #7 Patrick Conlin, #8 Arthur Clarke, #9 John Conway, #10 William Dowling, #11 Adam Davey, #12 Thomas Dowden, #13 William Hunt, #14 Joseph Hall.” End of page PRO Ref.WO12/1102

From The Niagara Memorial of the war of 1812

Under Corporal sometimes as Joseph Noel Sometimes Joseph Neil

Gregory O’Neal from Harbour Grace?

http://www.niagarahistorical.museum/media/RoyalNewfoundlandRegimentofFencibleInfantry.pdf

Other muster rolls without Joseph:

1795 – Brother-in-law Richard Woodfine

http://rnchs.ca/tattoo/muster1795.html

1782 Richard Woodfine Father-in-law (regiment disbanded 1783)

http://www.royalprovincial.com/military/musters/newf/nfcad82.htm

http://www.lib.unb.ca/collections/loyalist/seeOne.php?id=805&string=

1782 Edmund Neil from Harbour Grace?

http://www.royalprovincial.com/military/musters/newf/mrnwfman.htm

Sourcing British Military Information Newfoundland Fencibles:

British War Office Newfoundland Fencible Records

1795 Contents of Overview file

http://www2.swgc.mun.ca/nfld_history/CO194/CO194-39.htm

General Military Records

https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/British_Military_Records#Records_of_Service.

Normandy Garrisons by England in the 1415-50 found by Eric Neil:

http://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/soldier/database/Normandygarrisons.php

More interseting is this list from their database

medieval soldier

 

 

Welcome to the Blogosphere – à la Noel

After a five-year absence, our old website has been brought back to life (again) as a blog. A couple of years back, Pete’s research went stale, and around that time I dropped my old website domain, and never got around to restoring this content.

Recently, Pete had a surprising DNA match come up under the Noel Surname DNA Project and has been in touch with some old and new contacts researching the Jersey to Newfoundland Noel connections.

We’re working on bringing this content up to date.

USING THIS SITE:

Individual posts will often be updated rather than shown on the front page or recent posts.

Check the categories……

Also of note, Pete is now living in Thailand, and has added another Noel to the world…

Regards,
Dave

Archived Post – Down and Out, and Back Again

April 16, 2007:

After an absence of over six months, this website is working again. Last September, our web host suddenly and unexpectedly went out of business. While I was able to move the site to a new host, there were software compatibility issues which prevented the site from working properly, and none of the links worked. After many months of procrastination, I finally got around to debugging the site, and getting it working again.

There have been no substantial changes to the content on this site since October 2003. We seem to have gotten as far as we can with the information we have been able to dig up, and no new information has come in on the branches of the Noel family which we have been tracking. We will continue to maintain the site in its present state, but we do not expect much in the way of updates.

In other news, Pete has left Calgary, and is now globe-trotting. He spends much of his time in Trinidad, and is still reachable by email.

Regards,
Dave.

Archived Post – Sad News

January 1, 2006:

We received some sad news. Over the holidays, Norman Krischke passed away. If you have navigated around this website, you will know that most of our material was derived from Mr. Krischke’s personal research into the Noel’s of Newfoundland, and that our Noel genealogical links would have been impossible without his contributions. Anyone who ever had the opportunity to read his report, Gather Up All The Noels, came away extremely impressed.

We were able to get a copy of Mr. Krischke’s obituary from the online edition ofThe Victoria Advocate (Victoria, Texas, USA). Click here (pdf document) to view the obit.

Memorial donations may be sent to the Schulenburg Public Library Fund. Follow these links for more information:

Schulenburg Public Library
Fund-Raising Information and Donation Form (2 meg Adobe document)

Dave